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Comparing different translations of these verses demonstrates how context and one’s own doctrinal preference informs interpretation, which then determines whether these verses are translated inclusively. In the NASB it states…A man’s pride will bring him low… Proverbs 29:23 and Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling. Many people are unaware that chapter and verse numbers are only about 500 years old. You say the loveliest things. Here are a few examples of contradictions in the NIV and NASB. The Old Testament is arranged according to the traditional order of the Hebrew Scriptures and the New Testament is reorganized by placing each of the four Gospels at the head of four groupings of the New Testament … They do have many helpful notes that I like, but I noticed that a lot of their notes on certain verses have adamantly complementarian interpretations. If I have time, I may take a closer look at the HCSB. . Did Jesus address only men in Luke 14:25-27? God does not contradict himself but the NIV does. 3:28). The Importance of Using Feminine Words and Images. Archbishop Stephen Langton created the chapter system we’re familiar with in the 13th century, simply because he was writing a Bible commentary and needed a way to reference more specific portions of Scripture. Lately I am enjoying the HCSB for the same reasons you like it. So, the question of when to use gender-inclusive pronouns and words usually involves interpretation. Many of the translation decisions are refreshing in that the translators haven’t been bowed to traditional terminology, and have several translated key terms authentically. Other Koine documents were discovered in the 1800s and 1900s in archives of monasteries, etc. Do not be proud…. Plus translating can be subjective. Proper academic style doesn't capitalize pronouns for God, because the decision about what is the antecedent of a pronoun ought to be left to the reader rather than the translator as much as possible. I like the Revised English Bible for the New Testament and the Jewish Publication Society translation for the Old. Or is it better to just try to learn Greek and get a Greek Bible? Pride is what breaks up families, it causes nations to fall and it’s the reason why there are fallen angels in chains. In order to see more clearly, how similar the NRSV is to the ESV, I’ve included both the TNIV & the NIV, which differ by 4.2% through the entire Bible, though some books more and other less (Proverbs was changed by more than 15%). Yes, a lot of my egalitarian friends have raised an eyebrow over my use of the CSB because it was produced by the Southern Baptists. You might enjoy a book out there that has the Greek in the middle (with English words directly under each Greek word), NASB on one side, and NIV on the other. I am an older lady, but am able to change and learn new things, just so you know, but my church uses the NIV, and I just dislike it so much! Easter changes everything, but it is not the end of the story. I think the NASB should have stuck with the word “boast” when translating the kauch– words, but it is a stretch to say that the NASB says it’s okay to be proud, especially in an arrogant manner. It contains the word anthrōpos (“human/humanity”) three times. ~ To acknowledge that women were leaders in the New Testament and valued by Paul. Check out Kate’s editorial and/or go here for a longer article: https://www.christianitytoday.com/women/2019/august/prison-ministry-inspired-all-female-audio-bible.html. 3:6 KJV). I love its style, but it is biased towards male ministers (e.g., Rom. … God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. It was expected that readers would somehow know which verses were about, or applied to, men and women, and which verses were about, or applied to, only men. Which English translations and paraphrases do you prefer? The CEB, CSB, NIV 2011, and NRSV translate Romans 12:6-8 as potentially applying to both men and women, with no trace of gender bias. .”. One of the reasons I like it is for having Yahweh occasionally in the OT. I also like the CEB and some of their controversial renderings of verses, but a few verses are over-interpreted rather than translated. not really a translation or even a paraphrase, Why masculine pronouns can be misleading in the Bible and in the church, The Importance of Using Feminine Words and Images. by Andrew Wilson is here. ), … if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. I agree, I don’t think the NASB is saying it’s okay to be proud in an arrogant, negative manner. KJV It came out in 2001 and they revised and changed about 300 verses in 2007 and then they revised it again in 2011. Also I plan to read psalms and proverbs next month and I was wondering what is the best translation for understanding, knowledge and wisdom? 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. So what does r/Christianity think about them? The NRSV is a very good translation most of the time. You can support my work for as little as $3 a month. Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app.You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music. Why masculine pronouns can be misleading in the Bible and in the church From the very few examples given, the NRSV and CEB have shown that they are committed to gender-accuracy, gender-inclusivity, and gender-clarity. The NRSV was intended as a translation to serve devotional, liturgical and scholarly needs of the broadest possible range of religious adherents. I wish more English translations used the word Yahweh or YHWH too. They updated their copyright in 2015, but I can’t see significant differences in their translation. … taking on the likeness of humanity. Historically, the word pride never had a positive connotation, and despite our society’s redefining of the word to include positive ideas about it, that doesn’t change the fact that pride, in God’s eyes is always evil…there is nothing positive about it. To understand the grammar and all the nuances that need to be considered when translating Greek into English, including the grammar concerning personal pronouns, cannot possibly be explained in a blog post. Nice post. In some printings of the Aleppo Codex and the Westminster Leningrad Codex, as well as a Hebrew word meaning “not” there is also another Hebrew word given in round brackets: (לוֹ) (“its/his”). Why ban something that did not exist? Update: a PDF of the TNIV is available here. It was expected that readers would somehow know which verses were about, or applied to, men and women, and which verses were about, or applied only to, men. One thing I did note. The biblical authors lived in societies with cultures and customs we are unfamiliar with and they wrote in ancient, now dead, languages. Older English translations often use the words “man” or “men,” as well as masculine pronouns, in a generic way in verses that apply to both sexes. I like to use the ESV as a “replacement” for the old ASV-1901 along with the NRSV. But for clarity, I prefer the NASB, NIV… And I don’t have time for that right now. I like it a lot with the exception of a few verses. I can’t find the TNIV online. But it appears to be saying that it’s okay to be proud in a good way.”. What positive changes in the NLT 2015 have you seen? Romans 12:6-8 is a useful passage to gauge how translations deal with inclusive language. . 1 Timothy 3:1-2 NLT: “. But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty. Great article, thank you! I think a history of Bible translation would be fascinating. Is there not an updated newer translation perhaps? The NIV has got a good style and is easy to read, but there are more than a few translation choices that I disagree with and that, I think, spoil the translation (e.g., the handling of the verb sigaō, “be silent,” used three times in 1 Cor. 2 Corinthians 1:14 just as you also partially did understand us, that WE ARE YOUR REASON TO BE PROUD as you also are ours, in the day of our Lord Jesus. But this can be difficult to do. There are different kinds of pride. Paul, on the other hand, thinks it’s okay to boast in God and boast in troubles, etc. For instance, Sarah obeyed her husband, Abraham, and called him her master . So on the one hand, God opposes the proud and yet the NASB would have us believe that it’s okay to speak proudly, be proud, and have a proud confidence as long as it’s all for a good reason. (More on gender bias in the ESV here.). Our church uses the ESV mostly now. Respect however, is always good. The NASB can be a little clunky to read because of the way it was translated. James 4:6b NASB, Hear and pay attention, do not be arrogant, for the LORD has spoken. No one is being deceived here. 1 Timothy 2:3b-5 (NIV 1984, underlines added). I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. The only positive change that I can see is that the incorrect word “elder” has been replaced with a more correct word “church leader” in 1 Timothy 3:1. So glad I found your blog; I am in heaven!! Thank you again for the very thorough analysis you have done on the merits of the various translations. Thanks for sharing. Which foreign language Bibles do you recommend for people wanting gender-inclusive verses to be translated in a gender-inclusive way? It could be argued that these masculine words might be translated as “every man who is believing.” Thankfully, however, all English translations have translated John 3:16 inclusively. Can you help explain Isa.9:3? Manhood and Masculinity in the ESV Thank you dear, very informative . . in a lot of places regarding gender equality and particularly the way they translate Rom 4:5,’But to one who without works trusts Him who justifies the ungodly,such faith is reckoned as righteousness’. Thanks for the time you have taken to look through so thoroughly. I "use" NRSV only inasmuch as I read along with it in church. It’s gender-neutral. On the other hand, the online NET Bible is a good Bible for study because of its helpful notes. I promise God isn't offended by this, as the practice of capitalizing those pronouns is quite recent. These verses about Jesus have been translated in the past in ways that highlight his male sex. As I mentioned above, I occasionally use the NIV and NASB. Thanks for your response! Dumb tradition! Unfortunately, most people think it can be a good thing. I don’t speak other modern languages other than English, so I’m leaving this question to others to answer. To be fair, spirit is literally the word breath or wind. Also, many consider the NRSV to not be as free-flowing and natural-sounding English as it could be since it takes a few “liberties” in translating some words. 3.6. As for the Christian Standard Bible (CSB), it is an accurate translation and beautifully written. 1 Timothy 2:8 is the only verse here about men. the passages apply to men and to women). More on the ministry of women in the first century church here. The magazine, Christianity Today, in its Tuesday, August 27, 2019 edition, CT Women column, features an editorial by Kate Allnutt noting the first all female audio Bible, called the Courage for Life Bible. I’ve written a few articles that focus on the ESV. So I compare English translations to see which most closely says what I think the Greek is saying. Thank You. Heb. The New International Version is a “dynamic” translation. (I’ve underlined the masculine terms to highlight them. This is how I came to prefer the CSB. I grew up as United Methodist and am now newly Free Methodist. Moreover, the masculine grammatical gender is typically the default gender in Greek and in Hebrew for a generic person or a group of people which may, or may not, include women. 2 Corinthians 7:4 I have spoken to you with great frankness; I take great pride in you…. I really like the CSB. John Testifies Again About Jesus. Hi Marg, have you had any time to see my NT at http://bible.fether.net ? So now it’s the first translation I look at. I would prefer, however, that it use Yawheh or Yehovah in every instance the Name occurs. Mark Straus is University Professor of New Testament at Bethel Seminary and well published. It is often assumed that the ESV is one of the least gender-inclusive translations. Though I wished the translators had used “Messiah” more. For his CV see: https://www.bethel.edu/academics/faculty/strauss-mark, Here is a quote from the review mentioned above, (Sec.) From what I understand, the TNIV is no longer being published, so I didn’t include it in my short investigation. And for that, I am grateful. . OT professor Claude Marriotini explains this issue further here. Although the gender language changes are perhaps the most significant in the revision of the HCSB, there are many others. I use douay-rheims + Luther Bibel + NASB + electronic interlinear versions when I need to do serious "work". Women and girls are equally included in the salvation offered through Jesus. “Traditional Language. The TNIV, published in 2005 and produced by the same translation committee as the NIV, was essentially the third edition of the NIV, after the 1978 and 1984 editions. For instance, John 3:16 in the Greek contains three grammatically masculine words for “everyone who is believing”: πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων. . 7 Places where Gender-Inclusive Bible Translation Really Matters: Part One and Part Two, by Jeffrey D. Miller. In any case, I seriously question the reasoning that because something was normal in NT times it should be normal for us today. or there being 30,000 chariots in 1 Samuel 13:5 (KJB, NKJV, RV, ASV, NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Douay-Rheims) or only 3000 (NIV, NET, Holman, Catholic New Jerusalem) Look at the new "revision" of the ESV 2011. I’ve italicised the problem words. Compare the translation from Hebrew: “You have multiplied the nation. It’s important to look at what Paul is boasting about, or, “taking pride” in. Thank you, Ray. It was written with the goal of preserving the best of the older versions while incorporating modern English. As I said, I think the NASB and the KJV should have translated the “boasting” words more consistently. KJV Here’s what I’ve found out about the TNIV. This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one.”, Genesis 3:16 NLT: “. … our savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 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